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	<title>Comments on: Attracting women to free software projects</title>
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	<link>http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/women-in-it/attracting-women-to-free-software-projects/</link>
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		<title>By: Peter Gillard-Moss</title>
		<link>http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/women-in-it/attracting-women-to-free-software-projects/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Gillard-Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/thoughts/?p=59#comment-36</guid>
		<description>I think the flaw with the article is it is in itself gender centric.  It starts with the preconception that there is a distinct divide between certain behaviours in men and women with no overlap.

Although I agree there are distinctions in gender behaviour they are a lot more subtle than the article makes out.

Development and OSS isn&#039;t male centric but more centered around a very narrow type of male: the old geek stereotype who has done this industry so much damage.

As a male developer I relate to all of the points in the article and I know many other male developers who would as well: focus on delivering value, communication centric, preference of collaboration, rejection of personality culture, flat structures, interests outside of  programming etc.

Personally, the most insulting thing I find about the article is the negative potrayel of men, very few of the male characteristics it sites do I relate to and most of them I deem as negative.

The focus on lack of women is positive yet I think it is missing the point: the industries focus and image of a certain type of male isn&#039;t just driving away women it is driving away men as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the flaw with the article is it is in itself gender centric.  It starts with the preconception that there is a distinct divide between certain behaviours in men and women with no overlap.</p>
<p>Although I agree there are distinctions in gender behaviour they are a lot more subtle than the article makes out.</p>
<p>Development and OSS isn&#8217;t male centric but more centered around a very narrow type of male: the old geek stereotype who has done this industry so much damage.</p>
<p>As a male developer I relate to all of the points in the article and I know many other male developers who would as well: focus on delivering value, communication centric, preference of collaboration, rejection of personality culture, flat structures, interests outside of  programming etc.</p>
<p>Personally, the most insulting thing I find about the article is the negative potrayel of men, very few of the male characteristics it sites do I relate to and most of them I deem as negative.</p>
<p>The focus on lack of women is positive yet I think it is missing the point: the industries focus and image of a certain type of male isn&#8217;t just driving away women it is driving away men as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/women-in-it/attracting-women-to-free-software-projects/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/thoughts/?p=59#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Nikki - that must have been an awful situation to be in. I hope you are in a better, supportive environment now. I haven&#039;t worked in that type of environment but I can understand how it must of felt.

I think, though, that working in positive environments benefits everybody; working in negative environments effects both men and women alike. By saying that the environment should improve to attract more women sends a bad message to our male counterparts - &quot;We don&#039;t really care about putting you men in a bad work environment, but we shouldn&#039;t let those purdy li&#039;le ladies work in it&quot;.

You should not improve your environment to attract more *women* : you should improve your environment because it is the right thing to do for all your current and future employees.

I think you have touched the real deficit - there just aren&#039;t enough women graduating in CS/IT/Engineering. I did B of Engineering major in Software and in my major, there were about 35 people; 5 of which were girls. In my engineering classes, however there were about 400 students, I am not sure how many girls there were, but definitely lower than the ratio in Software. Most girls went into environmental engineering; some went into chemical and then only one or two majored in the traditional engineering disciplines (civil, mechanical etc).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikki &#8211; that must have been an awful situation to be in. I hope you are in a better, supportive environment now. I haven&#8217;t worked in that type of environment but I can understand how it must of felt.</p>
<p>I think, though, that working in positive environments benefits everybody; working in negative environments effects both men and women alike. By saying that the environment should improve to attract more women sends a bad message to our male counterparts &#8211; &#8220;We don&#8217;t really care about putting you men in a bad work environment, but we shouldn&#8217;t let those purdy li&#8217;le ladies work in it&#8221;.</p>
<p>You should not improve your environment to attract more *women* : you should improve your environment because it is the right thing to do for all your current and future employees.</p>
<p>I think you have touched the real deficit &#8211; there just aren&#8217;t enough women graduating in CS/IT/Engineering. I did B of Engineering major in Software and in my major, there were about 35 people; 5 of which were girls. In my engineering classes, however there were about 400 students, I am not sure how many girls there were, but definitely lower than the ratio in Software. Most girls went into environmental engineering; some went into chemical and then only one or two majored in the traditional engineering disciplines (civil, mechanical etc).</p>
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		<title>By: Nikki Appleby</title>
		<link>http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/women-in-it/attracting-women-to-free-software-projects/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikki Appleby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/thoughts/?p=59#comment-34</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with the article, and here&#039;s why.

I&#039;ve been in software development since graduating in 1989. My class had 113 men and 2 women, and the ratios did not change out in the working world. I never had a problem with being a minority - I did not see myself as different and neither did my colleagues. I got all of the collaboration and mentoring that I needed, from men or women.

My last role was a really obnoxious one. No details, but I have lost a lot of confidence. I moved back into a decent environment and am gradually rebuilding back to where I have been before.

During my low confidence time I could have done with more mentoring, collaboration and support. The major thing that struck me was that people would take the time and effort to flame or denigrate a colleague who was less experienced, but not bother to teach them better ways. It made me reluctant to ask for help. Most of the behaviour came from people&#039;s own lack of confidence.

So therefore in my experience I see these as good initiatives to get women into the workplace. The benefit would be enjoyed by both men and women. I do not find them offensive at all.

Finally, my last observation is that you, and I, are not the demographic that they are aiming at, because we are the 2% that are already here and are prepared to stick with it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with the article, and here&#8217;s why.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been in software development since graduating in 1989. My class had 113 men and 2 women, and the ratios did not change out in the working world. I never had a problem with being a minority &#8211; I did not see myself as different and neither did my colleagues. I got all of the collaboration and mentoring that I needed, from men or women.</p>
<p>My last role was a really obnoxious one. No details, but I have lost a lot of confidence. I moved back into a decent environment and am gradually rebuilding back to where I have been before.</p>
<p>During my low confidence time I could have done with more mentoring, collaboration and support. The major thing that struck me was that people would take the time and effort to flame or denigrate a colleague who was less experienced, but not bother to teach them better ways. It made me reluctant to ask for help. Most of the behaviour came from people&#8217;s own lack of confidence.</p>
<p>So therefore in my experience I see these as good initiatives to get women into the workplace. The benefit would be enjoyed by both men and women. I do not find them offensive at all.</p>
<p>Finally, my last observation is that you, and I, are not the demographic that they are aiming at, because we are the 2% that are already here and are prepared to stick with it!</p>
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		<title>By: iso 17025</title>
		<link>http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/women-in-it/attracting-women-to-free-software-projects/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>iso 17025</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sarahtaraporewalla.com/thoughts/?p=59#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Nice post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.</p>
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